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TwoToneshuzz 12-13-2011 09:02 AM

Tempo, Groove, Timing, Swing, Rubato Where are you?
I'm back from a night on the town with some great thinkers here in Copenhagen, In paticular one guest had some rather provocative views on. TIME.

This thread I hope can lead to some inputs and ideas that can help us get more mileage out of the Time element in our Numerology projects.

TwoToneshuzz 12-13-2011 09:16 AM

My ideas first..
I'm no stranger to the time element.. Time for me is probably the most satisfying element in the creative process.

Time is important for

The pulse our own and the Lady opposite.




Increase/decreasing Intensity

Sense of Space


Detail miniature the Micro details are often delineated by the small variances in time. In the musical phrase and in the timbral quality of the sounds. Lfo's Ramdom lfo's simple elements with a big impact on the timbre of a sound and are time based. Micro detail in a soundscape is often a carrier of intererest focusing our attention and making time live, filling space with experience.

Broad Lines How and when sections change in a piece. Sectional changes and how they appear in time and relation to one another sum up events, give a sense of zooming out for the big picture.

Time is a Dramatic force..

Time when used with Rubato and swing, creates a sense of the organic, ie the movements of animals in motion, and the wind harri-ing the grass lands or the surface of the water..

Rests used in a Timely aware way, and an active way create a small pocket of negative force that can load a Soundscape with a sense of the inevitable..a rest needs an answer in sound.

Often when I listen to music created by electronic musician/composer this ability to deal with an intelligent use of Rests that are activating, intense and engaging is sorely missed..

TwoToneshuzz 12-13-2011 09:36 AM

No variation in Tempo, no rubato, no time O affect.
In my opinion a section of music with no variation in Tempos, no swing, no rubato, is almost physically impossilbe in the "Real" organic world. In computer music it seems it is the norm. DAM!

Yasha 12-13-2011 01:24 PM

Well, Numerology gives you frightening control over time. With the Groove Clock module, not only can you control which 16th note fractions of a beat are late or early, but with the ParaMod module you can modulate the timing offset of each of those 16th notes as well as the tempo.

You may not be able to give organic life to the timing in your piece (unless you have a midi controller with breath, brainwave or heartbeat sensors), but you can give it a rich artificial life.

TwoToneshuzz 12-14-2011 05:07 AM


Originally Posted by Yasha (Post 8263)
Well, Numerology gives you frightening control over time. With the Groove Clock module, not only can you control which 16th note fractions of a beat are late or early, but with the ParaMod module you can modulate the timing offset of each of those 16th notes as well as the tempo.

You may not be able to give organic life to the timing in your piece (unless you have a midi controller with breath, brainwave or heartbeat sensors), but you can give it a rich artificial life.

I think that "a rich artificial life" is what this thread is all about. Where I want to go is a refined a reasoned and informed approach to finding ways to reach this liveliness and freshness of pulse. The bounce the swing, the deep and profound accelarando over several bars. "Meaning" Insightful usage of all these tweaks on the time. Sure we know things on a surface level, but deep down does it work? Is it an effective workflow to just tweek your way to a deep and coherent use of the element of time. Or do we have to perform everything in realtime with quantize off to acheive this..

I think not. A conductor has a sense of time he has to communicate his visions of the time to instrumentalists, he/she does not perform each voice/instrument of the score/arrange. So a Numerologist/Composer/Conductor/Arranger/Performer needs to use and abuse the available tools til they give this rich artificial life so much presence that a listener wil only notice that everything is perfectly effortless and feels "right" as far as timing goes. A listener should not sit there thinking hey great sounds, great idea but the feeling that the performance the experience just lacks that "something" that makes it a Great performance. I suppose in Classical music the time combined with the dynamic control is what sets great performance apart from just adequate performance.

Time tweeking alone does not get powerful until it is related to the other aspects of the sound composition in a coherent way and with a detailed understanding of times impact on the whole sound..and it follows the listener..

The Overview and the mastering of the sense of time can happen through the use of primed and ambitious use of : ears/mind/body/following example/understanding the genre/experience..

Timing is a total elemental living field of work. With Numerology used intelligently we have a unique tool to study time to a degree and with an ease that would be the envy of composers through the whole long history of music.


TwoToneshuzz 12-14-2011 04:40 PM

Conductors conduct with their bodies, with facial gestures, a baton, A computer musician, has a mouse, maybe a controller. perhaps a large three dimension sensor field where you would move your arm as a conductor is already available or on the drawing board..

Rthymic impuls, the bodies, puls the breath. Subdivisions the language, the mirrors of working rythms banga bang bang bang hit the nail on the head, open the door, slam it, flush the toilet, the coffee cup from the shelf and on the table again again and again.. Down the strairs to the street 49 steps to the corner and you turn down the street and walk 100 steps to the next corner. it's all in your body your sense of the time it takes to get from a to b, what you think as you walk. Do you always think aleast a few of the same thoughts as you take your daily route to the store or work..?

The well worn ruts in a brains interwoven network. The habitual way of talking of thinking of using your body rythm of life..

movement for fun
movement for purpose
uncomfortable movement
springy happy skipping movemnet
The movement of the chore
The movement of fear.
Large arcs, musical movement on the curves on the road. A plane banking in a curve. Centrafugal force..
Downhill rushes increasing velocity
Uphill struggles
pelting rain stacatto
Gusting winds
Gentle breezes
Fluttering leaves wayward but inevitably settling downwards.
Brutal machine gun fire.
Rockets blasting off. Escape velocity.
Soft massage movements. Suggestive opening pressures, catylictic pressures the good pain.
a caressing circular movement

The runner the limper, the elderly and the rollator shuffle, the cat the dog and there complex and effiecient footwork. Machines, controlled distruction, Eating, the person opposite chewing the too tough beefsteak, spasms of pain, ecstacy,

The language. it's contours, angry, happy, bored, mindless babbling, intelligent musing..

Some sources of Time based material I can think of off the top of my head..

TwoToneshuzz 12-15-2011 04:01 PM

Theory of time Past Present Future
B-theory of time
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The B-theory of time is a term, given to one of two positions taken by theorists, in the philosophy of time. The labels, A-theory and B-theory, are derived from the analysis of time and change developed by Cambridge philosopher J. M. E. McTaggart in The Unreality of Time, in which events are ordered via a tensed A-series or a tenseless B-series.
[edit] Description

Events (or 'times'), McTaggart observed, may be characterized in two distinct, but related, ways. On the one hand they can be characterized as past, present or future, normally indicated in natural languages such as English by the verbal inflection of tenses or auxiliary adverbial modifiers. Alternatively events may be described as earlier than, simultaneous with, or later than others. Philosophers are divided as to whether the tensed or tenseless mode of expressing temporal fact is fundamental. Those who (like Arthur Prior[1]) take the tensed notions associated with the past, present and future to be the irreducible foundations of temporality and our conceptions of temporal fact, are called A-theorists (or presentists). A-theorists deny that past, present and future are equally real, and maintain that the future is not fixed and determinate like the past. Those who wish to eliminate all talk of past, present and future in favour of a tenseless ordering of events are called B-theorists. B-theorists (such as D.H. Mellor[2] and J.J.C. Smart[3]) believe that the past the present and the future are equally real.

The past, the present and the future feature vary differently in deliberation and reflection. We remember the past and anticipate the future, for example, but not vice versa. B-theorists maintain that the fact that we know much less about the future simply reflects an epistemological difference between the future and the past: the future is no less real than the past; we just know less about it (Mellor 1998). A view was held, for example by Quine and Putnam that physical theories such as special relativity, and latterly Quantum mechanics provide the B-theory with compelling support. [4] [5]

A-theorists on the other hand believe that a satisfactory account of time must acknowledge a fundamental metaphysical difference between past, present and future (Prior 2003). The difference between A-theorists and B-theorists is often described as a dispute about temporal passage or 'becoming'. B-theorists argue that this notion embodies serious confusion about time, while many A-theorists argue that in rejecting temporal 'becoming', B-theorists reject time's most vital and distinctive characteristic. It is common (though not universal) to identify A-theorists' views with belief in temporal passage.

It is also common (though not universal) for B-theorists to be four-dimensionalists, that is, to believe that objects are extended in time as well as in space and therefore have temporal as well as spatial parts. This is sometimes called a time-slice ontology (Clark, 1978).

The debate between A-theorists and B-theorists is a continuation of a metaphysical dispute reaching back to the ancient Greek philosophers Heraclitus and Parmenides. Parmenides thought that reality is timeless and unchanging. Heraclitus, in contrast, believed that the world is a process of ceaseless change, flux and decay. Reality for Heraclitus is dynamic and ephemeral. Indeed the world is so fleeting, according to Heraclitus, that it is impossible to step twice into the same river. The metaphysical issues that continue to divide A-theorists and B-theorists concern the reality of the past, the reality of the future, and the ontological status of the present.

TwoToneshuzz 12-15-2011 05:28 PM

Interesting Science about Newton and Time

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