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-   -   Tempo discrepancy between Logic and Live (http://www.five12.net/showthread.php?t=3626)

silverlinining 08-14-2018 09:40 AM

Tempo discrepancy between Numerology and Live
 
Hi guys,

I have truly been enjoying and inspired by this software. I have hit a wall with one issue, however:

I am using Numerology 4 Pro to program grooves that I mix out onto my analogue desk and do live arrangements that are bounced back into Live, then edited. The trouble is that the tempo in Numerology is not exactly the same as that in Logic, so I have to spend ages timing up the tempo in the DAW post-bounce. So if I set something to 125bpm, it comes out as something like 125.234565 in Live.

I have tried bouncing in using Rewire but I can’t get stack outputs to talk to my external outputs on my Apogee Ensemble in Rewire mode. I have also tried the AU but I’m missing the clock feature on there that allows for custom swings.

Any help appreciated!

Using: MacBook Pro Mid-2012 (2.5 GHz Intel Core i5) / Yosemite 10.4 / Live 9.7.7

Aramis 08-14-2018 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlinining (Post 17041)
Hi guys,

I have truly been enjoying and inspired by this software. I have hit a wall with one issue, however:

I am using Numerology 4 Pro to program grooves that I mix out onto my analogue desk and do live arrangements that are bounced back into Live, then edited. The trouble is that the tempo in Numerology is not exactly the same as that in Logic, so I have to spend ages timing up the tempo in the DAW post-bounce. So if I set something to 125bpm, it comes out as something like 125.234565 in Live.

I have tried bouncing in using Rewire but I can’t get stack outputs to talk to my external outputs on my Apogee Ensemble in Rewire mode. I have also tried the AU but I’m missing the clock feature on there that allows for custom swings.

Any help appreciated!

Using: MacBook Pro Mid-2012 (2.5 GHz Intel Core i5) / Yosemite 10.4 / Live 9.7.7

Hi , do you realize, it could be difficult to follow what you are trying to do here ?

Numerology
Analogue desk
Logic
Live
etc......

Aramis 08-14-2018 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlinining (Post 17041)
Hi guys,

I have truly been enjoying and inspired by this software. I have hit a wall with one issue, however:

I am using Numerology 4 Pro to program grooves that I mix out onto my analogue desk and do live arrangements that are bounced back into Live, then edited. The trouble is that the tempo in Numerology is not exactly the same as that in Logic, so I have to spend ages timing up the tempo in the DAW post-bounce. So if I set something to 125bpm, it comes out as something like 125.234565 in Live.

I have tried bouncing in using Rewire but I can’t get stack outputs to talk to my external outputs on my Apogee Ensemble in Rewire mode. I have also tried the AU but I’m missing the clock feature on there that allows for custom swings.

Any help appreciated!

Using: MacBook Pro Mid-2012 (2.5 GHz Intel Core i5) / Yosemite 10.4 / Live 9.7.7

First, you create something in Numerology ?
next, you hit play and record the audio from Numerology to what ? exactly ?

silverlinining 08-14-2018 01:04 PM

I use numerology because of the grooves you can make using the clock feature. So I program drums and instruments etc in Numerology, triggering internal and external synths and samplers which are mixed on a mackie desk with outboard and external effects. This gives me the old school sound I am looking for. I then record that mixdown back into a DAW. I then edit the stereo bounce and overlay sounds.

Without rewire: I can record the analogue mix in the DAW perfectly fine. However, the tempo in Logic or Ableton of the bounced audio is not the same as that set in Numerology by a small fraction.

With rewire: the tempo between apps stays in sync by making numerology a slave to the DAW, but I cannot send sounds to external outputs. The only way of doing it is to send the outputs individually to the DAW Rewire master, and assign outputs from the DAW, but this chokes the CPU a lot more.

Check this video of my studio in action, if you like:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkUpNoCnvrK/

So ideally, I'd like to bounce without Rewire. Any ideas as to why the tempos are not the same?

Does that make sense?

Aramis 08-14-2018 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlinining (Post 17044)
I use numerology because of the grooves you can make using the clock feature. So I program drums and instruments etc in Numerology, triggering internal and external synths and samplers which are mixed on a mackie desk with outboard and external effects. This gives me the old school sound I am looking for. I then record that mixdown back into a DAW. I then edit the stereo bounce and overlay sounds.

Without rewire: I can record the analogue mix in the DAW perfectly fine. However, the tempo in Logic or Ableton of the bounced audio is not the same as that set in Numerology by a small fraction.

With rewire: the tempo between apps stays in sync by making numerology a slave to the DAW, but I cannot send sounds to external outputs. The only way of doing it is to send the outputs individually to the DAW Rewire master, and assign outputs from the DAW, but this chokes the CPU a lot more.

Check this video of my studio in action, if you like:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkUpNoCnvrK/

So ideally, I'd like to bounce without Rewire. Any ideas as to why the tempos are not the same?

Does that make sense?

Can you confirm that the audio of Numerology goes to the Mackie mixer and then goes to a Daw to be recorded ?

silverlinining 08-15-2018 03:55 AM

Audio from Numerology and external instruments go to the Mackie to be recorded back into the DAW.

Aramis 08-15-2018 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlinining (Post 17046)
Audio from Numerology and external instruments go to the Mackie to be recorded back into the DAW.

Ok, now, do you use any kind of synchronisation in between Numerology and your daw ?

Aramis 08-15-2018 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlinining (Post 17046)
Audio from Numerology and external instruments go to the Mackie to be recorded back into the DAW.


Numerology is supported in ReWire slave mode to work with Ableton Live, Apple Logic, MOTU Digital Performer and Steinberg Cubase. It will probably work ne with other ReWire master applications, but those con gurations have not been tested as thoroughly as the applications listed here.
When Numerology runs its built-in installer script, it will install the 1.8.2 ReWire driver on Mac OS X 10.7 and later. For Mac OS X 10.6.8, we recommend that you download and install the latest ReWire driver from Propellerheads.se: http://www.propellerheads.se (Click downloads, then, “ReWire” (at the very bot- tom)) As of this writing the current version of ReWire is 1.7.
Numerology will also always check to install its own ReWire driver, as it is very important that you always have the same versions of both the Numerology ReWire Driver and the Numerology application installed.
If you want to disable Numerology from running in ReWire mode, just go to Numerology’s Preferences, look in the installation tab, then click ‘uninstall’ for ReWire.
Now you can get started. Startup your desired ReWire master app, then startup Numerology. You have to start the master app rst, otherwise Numerology will startup in standalone mode. After it has started, Nu- merology should show a “ReWire Mode” indicator on the transport bar.
In order for Numerology to run properly in ReWire mode, it needs to have it’s audio output assigned to a track in the host app, even if you are just using Numerology for MIDI. To do this, just create a new track in your host program, and set Numerology as it’s audio input. In Logic and Digital Performer, create an aux track. In Ableton Live you can use any audio track. This ensures that Numerology gets the steady stream of
‘render’ calls that it needs to operate.
Also, if you are using Logic as the ReWire master, be sure to set its “ReWire behavior” preference (in Logic’s Audio prefs, in Devices / Core Audio) to “Live Mode (Higher CPU Load)” to get the best MIDI tim- ing performance.
MIDI in ReWire Mode
When running in ReWire mode, Numerology’s main outputs are piped into the ReWire master program, which you can ‘tap’ by selecting “Numerology” as the audio input for a track. Transmission of MIDI from Numerology to the host app works just as it does in standalone mode: via Numerology’s virtual MIDI ports, or an IAC buss.
You may nd that MIDI transmitted from Numerology to the host app may be a bit delayed relative to other tracks or instruments. If so, you can easily adjust for this by adding a sample-accurate delay to the non-Numerology tracks in the host app’s project. Both the BufferDelay and the Latency Fixer plugins from www.expert-sleepers.co.uk can accomplish this. A delay time equal to one or two audio buffers in length generally does the trick.

silverlinining 08-15-2018 06:45 AM

Nope, I just line up bounces by recording a click at the beginning. 125 bpm is usually the same to the sample across all software.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramis (Post 17047)
Ok, now, do you use any kind of synchronisation in between Numerology and your daw ?


Aramis 08-15-2018 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlinining (Post 17041)
Hi guys,

I have truly been enjoying and inspired by this software. I have hit a wall with one issue, however:

I am using Numerology 4 Pro to program grooves that I mix out onto my analogue desk and do live arrangements that are bounced back into Live, then edited. The trouble is that the tempo in Numerology is not exactly the same as that in Logic, so I have to spend ages timing up the tempo in the DAW post-bounce. So if I set something to 125bpm, it comes out as something like 125.234565 in Live.

I have tried bouncing in using Rewire but I can’t get stack outputs to talk to my external outputs on my Apogee Ensemble in Rewire mode. I have also tried the AU but I’m missing the clock feature on there that allows for custom swings.

Any help appreciated!

Using: MacBook Pro Mid-2012 (2.5 GHz Intel Core i5) / Yosemite 10.4 / Live 9.7.7

Talking about Rewire mode,
The way I use Numerology rewire mode with Digital Performer (my Daw) is to program different stack outputs and select them as audio inputs in Digital Performer ( my daw )
The names are Numerology4RW:RW out 1-2 and Numerology4RW:RW out 3-4 and so on......


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