Numerology Store    Download  Video    Forum


Go Back   Five12.net -- Online Forum for the Numerology Music Sequencer > Numerology > Feature Requests

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:33 PM
Per Boysen's Avatar
Per Boysen Per Boysen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 277
Default

A simple solution would be to not use the Preset Playlist - just handle presets manually and you are free to work the arrangement as you wish during the show. Staying as long as the band needs on some part before "taking it to the bridge".... or whatever :-)
__________________
Best wishes
Per Boysen
perboysen.com
soundcloud.com/pboy
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-07-2014, 05:19 AM
PLaine PLaine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 102
Default

Well, there are two problems with that solution:

First, the power of playlist with infinite loops + exit button is that you can loop entire songs sections. In jazzy situations for example you might wanna play a solo over 32 bar structure. You make an infinite loop with those presets, play your solo as long as you like and when you wanna exit this loop just hit the button (hopefully via MIDI soon!) in any point of your solo structure. You cannot do this kind things without playlist.

Second, for some reason in N4 preset quantization does not work 100% in "manual mode". (I allready reported this bug in other thread) When you move from one preset to another sometimes you miss a beat or some subdividion. And on stage this is total disaster. So even if your loops can be repeated with single presets there's still this problem...

Preset quantization works well in playlist mode, so I have to use it any case no matter if my loops are short or longer ones.

Last edited by PLaine; 02-07-2014 at 05:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-07-2014, 05:50 AM
Per Boysen's Avatar
Per Boysen Per Boysen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 277
Default

It's always a challenge to combine linear and loop/pattern based performance approaches. I think Ableton Live gets away well with with this integration by introducing the option to use Scenes, as opposed to using the Arrange View (that equals Num's Timeline). The clips (in Live) equals Num's presets and all clips placed on the same row (in the spreadsheet-like Mix View; where columns symbolise "Tracks" which does what Stacks do in Numerology) is what we call a Scene. Now, you may advance manually to the next Scene by pushing a button, but you can also set a property for the Scene controller clip (the clip of the row that is located on the Master Track column) to "advance to the next Clip/Scene" after a certain number of played bars (or you may even set a random probability).

You can leave out one particular Clip from these Scenes manipulations of playback (by deleting the empty cell if that Clip's Track/column on the active Scene/row). This will allow you to keep one musical part repeating endlessly while anything - or nothing - happens to the rest of the arrangement.
__________________
Best wishes
Per Boysen
perboysen.com
soundcloud.com/pboy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-07-2014, 11:20 AM
jim jim is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLaine View Post
Second, for some reason in N4 preset quantization does not work 100% in "manual mode". (I allready reported this bug in other thread) When you move from one preset to another sometimes you miss a beat or some subdividion. And on stage this is total disaster. So even if your loops can be repeated with single presets there's still this problem...
Let me know if you still see that behavior in build 129 -- I fixed a couple of subtle things that could have caused the errors you saw. If you still have issues, email me a copy of the project so I can be sure to start testing w/ a similar setup...

Thanks,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-07-2014, 02:58 PM
jim jim is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLaine View Post
First, the power of playlist with infinite loops + exit button is that you can loop entire songs sections. In jazzy situations for example you might wanna play a solo over 32 bar structure. You make an infinite loop with those presets, play your solo as long as you like and when you wanna exit this loop just hit the button (hopefully via MIDI soon!) in any point of your solo structure. You cannot do this kind things without playlist.
Do keep pinging me on this -- 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil' -- but probably wait a week or two...

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-07-2014, 05:23 PM
PLaine PLaine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 102
Default

When I read my own last post I can see there's something that might seem little inconsistent: first I was asking for a chance to loop just one preset and then I am talking about looping longer song sections...

To be more little more clear, in real life you might need both in quite many songs. Your song may have (repeating) one or two bar intro and then it moves to longer A section, then there's some (repeating) one two bar interlude and then longer B part and finaly repeating outro. Most of my own songs are constructed this way. I need longer loops but there also quite often these shorter ones.

Now, if we dream a little more about this live stage usage maybe in future Numerology might develop a special Live mode. This would mean more options for controlling these (longer or shorter) loops and playback in general. For example, it would be great to have more buttons (not only this escape loop btn): you trigger whole sections with some midi controlled buttons. Also you could add there also automatic "pause playback" command in somewhere in the arrangement (for example for piano rubato resital part in the middle of the song). Btw am I missing something cause I haven't found a way to automatically stop playback when my arrangement (playlist) is finished. Does stop allways need manual hit? Sorry to slip little off-road here....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-08-2014, 05:17 AM
Arboria Auralist Arboria Auralist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brighton, UK.
Posts: 66
Default

My live Numerology setup affords some of that functionality, Plaine, but it certainly doesn't quite hit the sweet spot of simple usability you're describing.

Basically, I have a Stack that contains a modulation sequencer connected to ParamMod that controls the "Next Preset" for a slave stack containing the actual sequencer I'm jamming and improvising with (oftern). By altering the modulation sequencer I can setup e.g. AB, AAAB, ABAC sequences, fix its loop points to endlessly loop on a single preset, choose random playback direction for madness. I mute the "Next Preset" ParamMod when I want to manually choose patterns.

Things do get complicated if I duplicate the core sequence pattern too many times and lose track of what's going on, but my live sets are pretty chaotic anyway so I just roll with it.

As to your point about "a way to automatically stop playback when my arrangement (playlist) is finished" I always create a "MUTED" preset on every sequencer stack I make which comes in handy for all sorts of uses.

Anyway, more utility in the playlist functionality to support these kind of use cases would be very interesting. I don't tend to use the playlist too much as I don't like stopping the transport to engage it on a stack (requires running around the studio re-arming outboard sequencers).

However, its really great and inspiring reading all the different ways Numerology can be used, and a testament to its ability to be adapted to folk's preferred workflows.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-08-2014, 06:20 PM
PLaine PLaine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 102
Default

Hi,

This "muted preset at the end" is also what I do to make it "stop", while it does not actually stop, you know. My vision of live mode would include then "stop" or "pause" commands which you could put into your arrangement. Also you might have "jumps" to certain point to your arrangement. Well, these aren't only my ideas; Elektron sequencers have this kind of functions. And as said earlier, you might also have certain (midi) buttons to trigger some loops. With these live-functions you could practically do anything you want....?

Anyway these are just my visions of Numerologuy; how to develop it more towards live stage usage. And this is of course because I am a live musician most of all. All this been said, I am so happy for Numerology 4. I just came from a gig and N4 did a marvelous job there! Absolutely no problems of any kind. As said, Numerology takes care of some synth sequences, MIDI timing and but also all the program changes of my hardware (on stage I normally have Arturia Origin, Virus TI and Nord Stage). So it's also a kind of a set list helper...

Cheers,
P
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-10-2014, 05:43 PM
jim jim is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,542
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLaine View Post
All this been said, I am so happy for Numerology 4. I just came from a gig and N4 did a marvelous job there! Absolutely no problems of any kind. As said, Numerology takes care of some synth sequences, MIDI timing and but also all the program changes of my hardware (on stage I normally have Arturia Origin, Virus TI and Nord Stage). So it's also a kind of a set list helper...
That's totally awesome to hear -- not to mention that I am both honored and humbled that you moved to N4 from Elektron gear-- they make some pretty awesome stuff!

On the performance options front, a few comments based on the above discussion:

- It did take me a couple emails before I understood the 'infinitely loop preset' request, but in the context of using the preset playlist, it totally makes sense. Something else that would make sense is a way to 'force locate' to a preset even with the playlist running...

- Definitely I recommend using 'muted' presets -- they work really well with the playlist both for on-the-fly and pre-made arrangements. They are also are a nice distinction from muting the stack directly.

- I've been mulling over details of a 'mixer' controller setup. It would focus both on mixing tasks (volume/mute/solo) and 'stack control' things (exit loop, next preset, etc). You would have the freedom to map any of the controls on offer, though having some dedicated buttons to page through stacks would be pretty important.

Eventually such a mapping could go so far as to incorporate APC40 type grids for preset selection, but I won't try to do all that on the first pass....

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-10-2014, 04:29 PM
PLaine PLaine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim View Post
- I've been mulling over details of a 'mixer' controller setup. It would focus both on mixing tasks (volume/mute/solo) and 'stack control' things (exit loop, next preset, etc). You would have the freedom to map any of the controls on offer, though having some dedicated buttons to page through stacks would be pretty important.

Eventually such a mapping could go so far as to incorporate APC40 type grids for preset selection, but I won't try to do all that on the first pass....

Cheers,
Jim
Sounds amazing, but any hint how long we have to wait for that? Or before that, would it perhaps be possible to just have midi control for exit loop button? This is a great little button but (on stage) it's very difficult to use cause you have to press it with mouse.

Br,
P
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.