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  #21  
Old 03-04-2014, 07:59 AM
TheTechnobear TheTechnobear is offline
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ok, it seems to work with the eigenharp to Ableton

its a little hard to tell, as there are not many controls in ableton where the higher resolution is obvious... but it seems to work ok.

In N4 of course I can both send and receive the 14 bit data...

example:
receiving say 14 bit on CC 1 CC 1 = MSB CC 33 =LSB

use midi cv, CC A=1 CC B=33
CV = CV A out + (CV B out / 127)
complication is LSB is sent prior to MSB
so you should store CC B (LSB) until CC A is received, so I guess a S&H register
(Jim, how do i get a trig output, for the S&H reg, to wait for CC A/1)

sending 14 bit, just reverse the process...
but be sure to send LSB (on CC 33) , then MSB (on CC 1)

Given that N4 has hi resolution internally it would be nice, if MidiToCV & CC Gen could have a toggle which says CC A is 14 bit, and then send MSB on CC X and LSB on CC X+32
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2014, 06:59 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTechnobear View Post
afaik ableton does not support nrpn

it supports 14bit cc.... this is where the value is split into lsb and msb, msb is in the normal cc position.... according to a post i found its:
MSB/LSB CC# pairs (CC# 0-31 for MSB + CC# 32-63 for LSB);
Ahhh, now that starts to make sense -- a gold star for you!

Jim
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2014, 07:01 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTechnobear View Post
In N4 of course I can both send and receive the 14 bit data...

example:
receiving say 14 bit on CC 1 CC 1 = MSB CC 33 =LSB

use midi cv, CC A=1 CC B=33
CV = CV A out + (CV B out / 127)
complication is LSB is sent prior to MSB
so you should store CC B (LSB) until CC A is received, so I guess a S&H register
(Jim, how do i get a trig output, for the S&H reg, to wait for CC A/1)
That shouldn't be necessary -- probably just try swapping which CC voice has MSB vs. LSB -- I'll run a few tests...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTechnobear View Post
sending 14 bit, just reverse the process...
but be sure to send LSB (on CC 33) , then MSB (on CC 1)

Given that N4 has hi resolution internally it would be nice, if MidiToCV & CC Gen could have a toggle which says CC A is 14 bit, and then send MSB on CC X and LSB on CC X+32
I'll make a note!

Cheers,
Jim
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2014, 03:24 AM
TheTechnobear TheTechnobear is offline
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oops the above probably should be CV B/16384 (not /127)
(I got a bit confused working in 0-1 range rather than 0-16383)

I think the S&H is needed, since the MSB/LSB come in two separate messages.
(though in practice hard to see when its missing)

imagine:
LSB, MSB
0x7F 0x03
0x00 0x04

if you don't use a shift register you will get, 0x37F, 0x300,0x400
(as i say in practice this is a small glitch)

to do this, though you need a trig so you can detect when you receive CC (MSB)

I guess we could 'hack' this trig, by using a register, storing an invalid value in it, then CC updates it to valid value,
we 'trig' and immediately store the invalid value in it.
(on reflection i guess this is a common trick in numerology)

Last edited by TheTechnobear; 03-05-2014 at 03:28 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2014, 01:46 PM
jim jim is offline
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Here's a working example -- though I didn't use a shift register. If both inputs to a CC gen are changing, then the first 'voice' will always output before the second voice, and they will the exact same timestamp -- which you can verify in MIDI Monitor. I didn't test w/ Live so I can't say if it will process them correctly. If there is an issue, you can use the shift register as mentioned by TheTechnobear, or just use the CV Delay (with a very, very short delay time) on the 'LSB' part of the signal.

So the trick is to correctly determine the 'LSB' values for the 2nd CC. In the example below I:
- Started with an LFO, whose output range is -1 to +1.
- Scaled that (using a Signal Processor) to 0 to 1
- Multiplied that value by 127 so now the scale is 0 to 127.

So if you think of that value as the 'computed out' value of the MSB CC, then
the fractional part is the LSB. To get the fractional part:

- Use a UnaryOp to truncate the 0to127 value (i.e. remove the fractional part).
- Use a BinaryOp to subtract the truncated value from the main value.

That process gets you a LSB value that ranges from 0 to 1 as the MSB value ranges from 0 to 127.

For the CCGen itself, the first (MSB) value comes directly from the LFO. That voice is left at it's default scaling mode (i.e. source at -1 to +1).

The second voice comes from the chain of operator modules, but has it's scaling mode set to 0 to 1.

Yeah, a lot of math, but if you watch the outputs of the operator modules as it runs for a bit, it starts to make sense...

[screenshot & .zip'd N4 project file attached]

Cheers,
Jim
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File Type: png Numerology4 ProScreenSnapz002.png (209.8 KB, 56 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip FourteenBitCCs.nmp.zip (7.5 KB, 5 views)
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  #26  
Old 03-09-2014, 05:24 AM
nil nil is offline
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It works ! Super smooth modulations of any Live parameter, thank you so much Jim !

I noticed that setting CC Gen's Data Rate to "I" is useless as it seems to "overload/break" the MIDI flux on the Live side.

Does switching from the Low Data Rate in your example stack to higher values even make any difference in such case ?

Anyway, maybe it could turn into a new MIDI Gen 14bit module ?

Or Jim, if you still consider adding some kind of macros / grouping feature for easier recall ?

As always, thank you so much ! I can't imagine composing and producing without Numerology. I can't wait for the day I'll be able to make a tune form A to Z (or at least X or Y, as I love Reaper when it comes to mixing) with Numerology. A few additional features / improvements (multithreading (patiently waiting !) and some kind of linear automation editing) and I'll happily go 100% Num.
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  #27  
Old 06-22-2015, 10:56 PM
mitch mitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim View Post
I'll look at it. I seem to remember there was some issue that kept Groove Clock from working properly in plugin-land. A quick question: is the 'Groove' setting on the top-right of the not sufficient? Not that I'm trying to impose specific limits there, just that recently I started to think the GC was totally overdone and all anyone really wanted was just regular swing... I'm happy to be corrected on that, just need some folks to chime in...

Jim
definitely not overdone - and I never ever use swing. it's great for weirder micro-moves.

I know it's an old post and maybe not relevant anymore but I figure that it's worth saying anyway.
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  #28  
Old 06-23-2015, 01:33 PM
Uncle GroOve Uncle GroOve is offline
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Damn I had totally missed this thread!

The groove clock is magic. I've created 2 stacks, one with and the other one without the "local" GC.
same straight 1/8 pattern but one of the 2 is unaffected while the other is "grooved", both are panned hard left and right. The effect is almost like a stereo enhancing effect, but it's more organic than a delay and moreover at a given point one or more played notes can be "square" (it would be impossible with a delay).
So, here's one happy camper... !
I.e. don't take our Groove Clock away
Cheers
Paul
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2015, 04:08 PM
Yasha Yasha is offline
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The Groove Clock is amazing and provides control over timing and rhythm that is unparalleled. When somebody asks what's so special about Numerology, I always mention how the position of time points within a measure can be controlled in real time. So, please don't take away that powerful feature!
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2015, 02:45 PM
Uncle GroOve Uncle GroOve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasha View Post
The Groove Clock is amazing and provides control over timing and rhythm that is unparalleled. When somebody asks what's so special about Numerology, I always mention how the position of time points within a measure can be controlled in real time. So, please don't take away that powerful feature!
TBH I seem to remember that it was possible to create "time maps" (?) in Logic.
BUT it isn't as straightforward and immediate and musical as in N4 IMHO.
So yes - by all means do keep it...!
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