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Old 11-24-2017, 06:51 PM
nreeves nreeves is offline
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Default Presets 2.0

Hi Jim,

Was thinking over the Preset system while at the gym the other day and had couple ideas I want to share.

The main idea was to split preset trigger assignments and playlist functionality into discrete views in order to streamline each since they're doing pretty different things. Right now assigning MIDI triggers to presets is a one-by-one, buried-in-modal auxiliary deal. It isn't horrible, most all of the functionality I want is there, it just feels really slow to work with if you have any number of presets and it's probably the no.1 thing for me in Numerology that I'm not looking forward to doing in each project.

The second goal was to make assigning presets to a control type more intuitive and performance-oriented, and to improve awareness of where presets exist on a controller and to see where your incoming MIDI is - these changes, while adding a bit of complexity upfront, simplify the process for people using Numerology as part of a larger setup with other hardware or software.

For Playlists, the system now works fine, but compared with the rest of Numerology it’s a bit linear and limited. To improve that I’m suggesting a couple things, including multiple playlist support, preset probability and preset follow actions. These new features grant a great deal of variability and creative potential without much work for users. For me, this feels much more like a "Numerology" playlist, if that makes any sense.

I made some quick mockups to illustrate the concept. Ignore the visual style, it’s not pertinent, just something fast / not in the way.

This isn't 100% fleshed-out and I don't know if or to what extent it aligns with your design goals for Numerology but, fwiw... some food for thought.

(images will be split over 2 posts)








Last edited by nreeves; 11-24-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:51 PM
nreeves nreeves is offline
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:03 PM
nreeves nreeves is offline
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Forgot a Playlist playback mode button and preset morphing.

Preset morphing could be more sophisticated but even something basic like the scene locks in Maschine are quite useful.
That's the main idea here, except instead of having on/off and duration as a global setting they're at the preset level.
Combined with follow actions...

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Old 11-26-2017, 09:55 PM
jim jim is offline
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... Lots of interesting ideas, and many comments that I agree with: Assigning preset selection to external triggers is more work than it should be. And the playlist should definitely become more flexible -- though I never considered supporting multiples -- that's a big step. And, wow, impressive graphics for just fleshing out some ideas!

I think some sort of 'midi learn' for triggering presets is a great idea -- I just have to make sure it plays well w/ other types of MIDI learn.

Also, thinking about how Chance / Step Ops work on the Vector (and in N5), adding various 'Preset Ops' could be interesting.

Multiple playlists I'll have to think about a bit -- it's a pretty big change both UI-wise and internally.

One question to consider, and one that I don't quite have an answer for yet, is how to reconcile the Playlist functions with the Timeline. Right now they're pretty separate, but it would be nice if they could somehow be made 'coherent' with each other -- so that each is a view of the other.

Anyway, lots to think about -- thanks for taking the time to make all the graphics, it definitely helps me understand what you're after.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:56 PM
nreeves nreeves is offline
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Thanks! It's my pleasure. Numerology is pretty central to how I make music these days so it's fun to think about and work out ideas.

Yeah without preset operations like probability and follow-actions there isn't much of a need for multiple playlists as the preset itself contains all of the variability, but once we introduce those types of functions to presets we'll begin designing more complex aggregate sequences (the playlist becomes the preset) and you'll want some way to have multiples and switch between them. That could be by way of supporting multiple playlists, adding a new tier between playlist and preset (some kind of multi/container level), or introducing some playlist utility nodes (loop point, stop, jump etc.) that could be inserted between presets to provide the additional control within a single level. Multiple playlists is the most appealing to me as it seems more direct and intuitive, but I haven't thought through it very far.

I hadn't considered playlist and timeline coherence... I've always felt they were sort of separate playgrounds with different strengths. That said it could be interesting, and I think these mockups get you part-way there on the preset side - a preset pool to draw from when building playlists allows instancing of the same preset multiple times within a sequence, and you'd need some kind of spacer/silence node to represent breaks on the timeline.

The timeline was actually the next thing I was planning to work on, as I want to show how I see integrating multiple playlists, visualizing playlist ops, and a few other things. Hope to have some time on that soon.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:02 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nreeves View Post
Thanks! It's my pleasure. Numerology is pretty central to how I make music these days so it's fun to think about and work out ideas.

Yeah without preset operations like probability and follow-actions there isn't much of a need for multiple playlists as the preset itself contains all of the variability, but once we introduce those types of functions to presets we'll begin designing more complex aggregate sequences (the playlist becomes the preset) and you'll want some way to have multiples and switch between them. That could be by way of supporting multiple playlists, adding a new tier between playlist and preset (some kind of multi/container level), or introducing some playlist utility nodes (loop point, stop, jump etc.) that could be inserted between presets to provide the additional control within a single level. Multiple playlists is the most appealing to me as it seems more direct and intuitive, but I haven't thought through it very far.
Multiple playlists would be a very big step, but preset actions could indeed be very useful -- and consistent with what is happening on the vector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nreeves View Post
I hadn't considered playlist and timeline coherence... I've always felt they were sort of separate playgrounds with different strengths. That said it could be interesting, and I think these mockups get you part-way there on the preset side - a preset pool to draw from when building playlists allows instancing of the same preset multiple times within a sequence, and you'd need some kind of spacer/silence node to represent breaks on the timeline.
Yes -- I think you hit on the main decision point: does the arrangement remain a separate thing -- perhaps it does, but you could record a playlist 'run thru' to the timeline for manual tweaking -- kinda like having a sampler on an audio track -- the sampler can be sequenced and messed with, then recorded to audio for further tweaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nreeves View Post
The timeline was actually the next thing I was planning to work on, as I want to show how I see integrating multiple playlists, visualizing playlist ops, and a few other things. Hope to have some time on that soon.
I look forward to seeing those ideas!

Cheers,
Jim
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