Numerology Store    Download  Video    Forum


Go Back   Five12.net -- Online Forum for the Numerology Music Sequencer > Techniques > Integration

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:15 AM
jue's Avatar
jue jue is offline
Numerologist
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: european outback
Posts: 646
Default Hyperspace travel for your audio: Wormhole2!

Hello,

the last days I was testing the free WormHole2 plugin again with several Hosts.

LIVE:
You want an internal plugin working with Numerology, no problem just send your audio via one wormhole to Live and with a second wormhole back to Numerology.
- Place your sending Wormhole at the end of the stack in Numerology from were you want to send.
- Place your receiving Wormhole in an audio track after this put the FX you want and then the sending WormHole for back to Numerology.
- Place your receiving WormHole after the sending Wormhole in Numerology and you have your audio back.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations

You want an internal instrument from live in Numerology, no problem just send your midi to live and return the output of the instrument via wormhole back to Numerology.
- Send your MIDI signal via IAC bus to the MIDI channel were your selected Instrument is located.
- Place your the sending WormHole for back to Numerology after the instrument and its FX.
- Place your receiving WormHole were ever you want in Numerology connect the audio to the stack output and you have your instrument in Numerology.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations.

Cubase
You want an internal plugin working with Numerology, no problem just send your audio via one wormhole to Cubase and with a second wormhole back to Numerology.
- Place your sending Wormhole at the end of the stack in Numerology from were you want to send.
- Place your receiving Wormhole in an audio track after this put the FX you want and then the sending WormHole for back to Numerology.
- Place your receiving WormHole after the sending Wormhole in Numerology and you have your audio back.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations.

You want an internal instrument from Cubase in Numerology, no problem just send your midi to Cubase and return the output of the instrument via wormhole back to Numerology.
- Send your MIDI signal via IAC bus to the MIDI channel were your selected Instrument is located.
- Place your the sending WormHole for back to Numerology after the instrument and its FX.
- Place your receiving WormHole were ever you want in Numerology connect the audio to the stack output and you have your instrument in Numerology.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations.

AudioMulch
You want AudioMulch to mulch your Numerology audio, no problem just send your audio via one wormhole to AudioMulch and with a second wormhole back to Numerology.
- Place your sending Wormhole at the end of the stack in Numerology from were you want to send.
- Place your receiving Wormhole in the patcher after this put the FX/ mangeling you want and then the sending WormHole for back to Numerology.
Here you have to be shure that the sending Wormhole is connected to soundout even when not sending audio out there.
Without this connection the Wormhole is not sending any audio.
- Place your receiving WormHole were ever you want in Numerology connect the audio to the stack output and you have your mulched audio back in Numerology.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations.

Logic
You want an internal plugin working with Numerology, no problem just send your audio via one wormhole to Logic and with a second wormhole back to Numerology.
- Place your sending Wormhole at the end of the stack in Numerology from were you want to send.
- Place your receiving Wormhole in an audio track after this put the FX you want and then the sending WormHole for back to Numerology.
Here you have to be shure that the I for input is selected that you can here the input!
- Place your receiving WormHole after the sending Wormhole in Numerology and you have your audio back.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations.

You want an internal instrument from Logic in Numerology, no problem just send your midi to Logic and return the output of the instrument via wormhole back to Numerology.
- Send your MIDI signal via IAC bus to the instrument channel were your selected Instrument is located.
- Place your the sending WormHole for back to Numerology after the instrument and its FX.
- Place your receiving WormHole were ever you want in Numerology connect the audio to the stack output and you have your instrument in Numerology.
- Along this you can send your MIDI from Numerology via IAC bus for more modulations

Rewire
In rewire modes it works also but if you want to render to disk only the realtime ones like you can select in Cubase are working when using the Wormholes.
So the best will be to record the result of the wormhole to an audiotrack!

To make things more clear:
A WormHole allways means two Plugins the first sends the audio and the second receives the audio.
So you need four plugins for sending and receiving back your audio from and back to Numerology.
In Numerology first a send WormHole in the second program a receiving WormHole to get the audio there and then again a sending WormHole from the second program to a receiving WormHole at Numerology again.

You can use as many Wormholes as you like as long as you use them as pairs, till your Mac needs a rest?

Please keep in Mind that this is not for the sample accurate peopleI think, but its really great for any deep sound experimentation, mangeling and mulching..... !!

The exact handling is to read at the manual !!

More information here: http://plasq.com/wormhole

and download MAC / PC / manual PDF here: http://code.google.com/p/wormhole2/downloads/list

best
jue
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:09 PM
corlin3 corlin3 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 27
Default Why not sunflower

I have been using both Sunflower, & Jack for this...
I like sunflower better.
What advantages dose Wormhole have over these?

I might be missing something important here....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:58 PM
jue's Avatar
jue jue is offline
Numerologist
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: european outback
Posts: 646
Default

Hello,

for me its mutch more easy to setup and to understand.
Startpoint here , endpoint there - nothing more.

No difficult changes at the audiosetups of the programms with changing channel names/numbers on each program when using agregate devices
and more than 16 connections possible.
And no more problems when using Numerology again without connections when you have to setback your audiosetup manually to its normal state.

Every program keeps its basic audio settings and your connections are loaded with the projects you select.

Used this the last year to get all my audio channels/stacks from Numerology to Cubase in one go with the grouprecording funktion plus some instruments from Live in paralell without problems.

best
jue
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-20-2009, 05:10 PM
Sjoerd Sjoerd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 263
Default

Thanks for another great tip Jue!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-22-2009, 07:02 AM
doctorvague doctorvague is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corlin3 View Post
I have been using both Sunflower, & Jack for this...
I like sunflower better.
What advantages dose Wormhole have over these?

I might be missing something important here....
I think you mean Soundflower, not Sunflower.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-25-2009, 02:35 PM
adamj adamj is offline
Numerologist
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 48
Default

I've actually been putting together some articles about connecting Live to Logic using a variety of options, focusing on:
- wormhole
- soundflower
- jack
It's not done yet, but I can post a link here when it is because it might be useful to people using Numerology with either of these programs.

Jack is a pain in the ass to use, but I found it is the most robust solution. When I try to use wormhole, I can only use wormhole on two tracks before I start getting choppy sound (dropped signal frames?). I thought this could be fixed by changing the configuration: I tried increasing buffer sizes and playing around with the other options but couldn't fix the problem.

Jue, did you have any experience with how many wormholes you can effectively use side by side? Besides this limit of me only being able to use 2 at a time on my computer, it works great...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-25-2009, 02:49 PM
Per Boysen's Avatar
Per Boysen Per Boysen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 277
Default

A while back I was using two synced applications on the same laptop for concert work. First I tried Jack and SoundFlower but unfortunately they were not timing accurate enough. I have not tried Wormhole2 yet so I'm looking forward to all reports on that.

The problem with Jack and SF is that with these applications the latency does vary depending on what else is going on in the operating system. For this stage setup I finally decided to use analog cable patching between inputs and outputs on the audio interface in order to pipe audio from one application into the next application. With the physical loop-back hack I got a stable latency figure that I could type into the slaving application in order to have it compensate for the delay. That exact latency compensation would not have been possible with the in-the-box solutions, because they vary in latency.

Two years ago I used another system, with two laptops and an optical ADAT pipe between them for audio and a MIDI Cable with MIDI Clock for sync. That worked fine too, but it's neater to have it all in one box. Then you can spare the second box as backup machine.
__________________
Best wishes
Per Boysen
perboysen.com
soundcloud.com/pboy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-25-2009, 04:43 PM
adamj adamj is offline
Numerologist
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Boysen View Post
First I tried Jack and SoundFlower but unfortunately they were not timing accurate enough. I have not tried Wormhole2 yet so I'm looking forward to all reports on that.
Well the "problem" with wormhole is it uses the networking loopback interface. I'm not entirely sure how this works at a low level, but I suspect if you happen to be doing any other networking communications (like OSC remote control), it could interfere with the bandwidth available to wormhole.

Plus Macs had a problem not long ago where Airport could interfere with stable audio playback, and the workaround was to turn off wireless. I guess this has all been resolved, but the issue remains that if I turn off wireless then I can't use wormhole! That's not really ideal, I think I would disable my internet in a performance situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Boysen View Post
The problem with Jack and SF is that with these applications the latency does vary depending on what else is going on in the operating system. For this stage setup I finally decided to use analog cable patching between inputs and outputs on the audio interface in order to pipe audio from one application into the next application. With the physical loop-back hack I got a stable latency figure that I could type into the slaving application in order to have it compensate for the delay.
Yeah that makes sense. Personally, I only have a stereo interface (an Apogee Duet) so I don't think this is an option for me. Just out of curiosity what interface are you using? I have thought about getting a MOTU Traveler at some point, I think that would work fine with the kind of setup you are describing.

But in the meantime, it would be nice to do it with purely software, and I can't believe this problem hasn't been solved better by now. The options being discussed in this thread are generally good enough. Maybe not for real time performance, but when I'm just making some music by myself and trying to produce a track, it's definitely workable.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-16-2009, 01:00 AM
ehdyn's Avatar
ehdyn ehdyn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14
Default

Such a nice guide - thank you Jue!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-31-2009, 05:33 AM
bruno garza bruno garza is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 45
Default

Or just stay hardware based

http://www.digimixstudios.net/Tutorials/05a/index.html
This works for both my Firewire 410 and Profire 610
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.