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  #1  
Old 03-01-2014, 04:51 AM
nil nil is offline
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Default GrooveClock in N4 VST ?

Hey Jim and all !
I'm pretty delighted to see the GrooveClock into N4 VST's Modules list, but I'm quite puzzled I can drag it in my stack, but won't show up :



... then it appears in the Routing panel !



So, Jim !?!?!?

Damn, if I can finally use my own grooves, combined to the VST perfect timing, I'd happily ditch my bunky (because of Live 9, worse than L8 when it comes to stability and CPU usage, I shouldn't have update) Rewire set-up !

Or if anyone knows a way to apply, in real time, a groove to a whole Live session, I could also extract my custom Num grooves and use them as a general shuffle (the same way I would using Numerology's Master GrooveClock)... Sorry I'm thinking out loud

As always, best regards !
n.

Last edited by nil; 03-01-2014 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:41 AM
nil nil is offline
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Ps: or if it's finally not possible to edit the GrooveClock in the plugin version, being able just to load (but not to edit) our GC presets (done with the stand-alone version), would be absolutely fantastic. Really.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:22 PM
jim jim is offline
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I'll look at it. I seem to remember there was some issue that kept Groove Clock from working properly in plugin-land. A quick question: is the 'Groove' setting on the top-right of the not sufficient? Not that I'm trying to impose specific limits there, just that recently I started to think the GC was totally overdone and all anyone really wanted was just regular swing... I'm happy to be corrected on that, just need some folks to chime in...

Jim
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:25 PM
Luddite Luddite is offline
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Swing setting in the top corner (VST) would be great for me Jim but, the last time I checked, it wasn't midi-assignable. Not much use for a live situation. Haven't checked build 130 though.
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2014, 03:07 PM
nil nil is offline
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Jim : I'm currently reworking the tracks of my LP, and they were all done with my own Grooves (they simply work), so it's more a matter of back-compatibility/finishing that project.

It can seem stupid, but I'm kinda afraid to break that nice grooves I finally got... and for some reasons, the Rewire set-up I've been using for quite some times now is getting more and more unreliable.

And damn I'm so appealed by the VST perfect timing/sync !

I bet the built-in shuffle is great though, and that I might happily end using it... once that LP complete.

Or would it work to use Num VSTs, without any Groove, with a N4 session rewired to live, just for its Clock/Master Clock ? Or would it be useless (I'm afraid so) ?
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2014, 09:29 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
Jim : I'm currently reworking the tracks of my LP, and they were all done with my own Grooves (they simply work), so it's more a matter of back-compatibility/finishing that project.

It can seem stupid, but I'm kinda afraid to break that nice grooves I finally got... and for some reasons, the Rewire set-up I've been using for quite some times now is getting more and more unreliable.
Can you be more specific (i.e. timing, UI, reliability), also: N3 or N4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
And damn I'm so appealed by the VST perfect timing/sync !

I bet the built-in shuffle is great though, and that I might happily end using it... once that LP complete.

Or would it work to use Num VSTs, without any Groove, with a N4 session rewired to live, just for its Clock/Master Clock ? Or would it be useless (I'm afraid so) ?
That won't do it. Maybe take a quick peek at your grooves, if you just tweaked the 'e' and 'a' a bit, you should be able to quickly match it w/ the plugin's existing 'groove' setting. Otherwise, hang tight for a but while I check to see if the GC will work properly in an plugin stack...
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2014, 10:17 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
Swing setting in the top corner (VST) would be great for me Jim but, the last time I checked, it wasn't midi-assignable. Not much use for a live situation. Haven't checked build 130 though.
For build 132, I've added access to Groove through the "MIDI Transport" and "OSC Transport" controller setups.

Cheers,
Jim
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  #8  
Old 03-02-2014, 03:03 AM
nil nil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim View Post
Can you be more specific (i.e. timing, UI, reliability), also: N3 or N4?
Sure !

N3.2 build 70 (also tried with N4 build 130, I'm about to install 131)
Ableton Live 9.1.1 32bit / OSX 10.6.8

All those stutters, weird buffer issues, random crashes and massive CPU overload began when I updated to Live 9 and bought a SPL Crimson soundcard.

L9 seems to poorly handle CPU (I mean, it's worse than L8 !), and the Crimson, while being a fantastic unit, proposes to install its own HAL audio driver (lower latency, better overall performances) that bypasses Core Audio... and my latest tests seems to imply that reverting to Core Audio makes the whole lot much more stable again.

If I ever try to run Numerology at 1/4 Control Rate, Live crashes within seconds... which didn't happened back when I was using L8 and my old Apogee Duet. I have to give that a new try though.

Oh and Numerology standalone doesn't seem to like those HAL drivers either, it won't play until I switch Core Audio Clock Timebase to CPU..

I haven't succeed to run N3 standalone in parallel/sync of Live 9 too : won't make any kind of clock sync work too (while I had no issues doing so with my old set-up). Live 9 will crash if I try too, with the same stutter glitches.

I went back to N3 before I noticed that. Jim, could you please reset my install authorizations Jim, so that I can retry with v4 please (went through many re-installs, maybe that what causes those issues) ?

The only 2 things that prevents me for going 100% N4 (apart from those very minor auth. issues) are:
- that visual glitch I sometimes get when loading my N3 sessions : the GUI doesn't display the right Humanize/Gate & Velocity Adj. values in my PolyNotes (as well as the wrong pattern lenght). It all plays as expected, but I'm still scared I might screw something by saving...
- that sometimes the outgoing MIDI CCs (generated with ModulationSeq, LFO and FaderBox) are ways off, with wrong values.

But once again, I'm curious to double-check that all with both build 131 and without the HAL drivers. I'll do it later on today when I'm back in the studio.
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  #9  
Old 03-02-2014, 06:05 AM
nil nil is offline
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Jim, a slightly off-topic question : which MIDI ports does NumerologyVST uses to output MIDI in an Ableton Live session ?

I'd like to find a way to overcome the obvious Live's limitations when it comes to route internal CCs to any Live device parameter, and am currently investigating into "User Remote Script".

Or do any one knows a work around to do so, without using IAC ports (that would then induce latency I guess) ?

I'd just want to map CC 1 to 8, coming out of NumerologyVST/AU, to any macro...
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2014, 11:32 AM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
All those stutters, weird buffer issues, random crashes and massive CPU overload began when I updated to Live 9 and bought a SPL Crimson soundcard.

L9 seems to poorly handle CPU (I mean, it's worse than L8 !), and the Crimson, while being a fantastic unit, proposes to install its own HAL audio driver (lower latency, better overall performances) that bypasses Core Audio... and my latest tests seems to imply that reverting to Core Audio makes the whole lot much more stable again.

If I ever try to run Numerology at 1/4 Control Rate, Live crashes within seconds... which didn't happened back when I was using L8 and my old Apogee Duet. I have to give that a new try though.
I would actually be surprised if anyone could do better than a CoreAudio based driver. I've met several of the folks that work on the low-level audio internals, and they really know their stuff. Regardless, I would like to see those crash logs from Live -- if you get a chance, just .zip all of them up and send an email, they're in ~/Library/Logs/Crash Reporter.

Also, FYI: a general note about 10.6.8 and 64-bit audio apps: I don't have a lot of direct evidence, but 64-bit audio apps, esp. using ReWire, all seem to behave better on 10.8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
Oh and Numerology standalone doesn't seem to like those HAL drivers either, it won't play until I switch Core Audio Clock Timebase to CPU..
That indicates that their driver is not providing MIDI Timestamps, which makes it impossible for Numerology to schedule MIDI accurately, and makes it much more difficult for the clock library I'm using to generate the main tempo clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
I haven't succeed to run N3 standalone in parallel/sync of Live 9 too : won't make any kind of clock sync work too (while I had no issues doing so with my old set-up). Live 9 will crash if I try too, with the same stutter glitches.

I went back to N3 before I noticed that. Jim, could you please reset my install authorizations Jim, so that I can retry with v4 please (went through many re-installs, maybe that what causes those issues) ?
Done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
The only 2 things that prevents me for going 100% N4 (apart from those very minor auth. issues) are:
- that visual glitch I sometimes get when loading my N3 sessions : the GUI doesn't display the right Humanize/Gate & Velocity Adj. values in my PolyNotes (as well as the wrong pattern lenght). It all plays as expected, but I'm still scared I might screw something by saving...
That is something I'll be looking into this week. What happens is that the UI doesn't get all it's update messages from the running project. From what I know so far, restarting the ReWire host may fix the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nil View Post
- that sometimes the outgoing MIDI CCs (generated with ModulationSeq, LFO and FaderBox) are ways off, with wrong values.
Send me an example of that. I'll run a few tests, but there may be some specific detail in your setup that triggers the issue.

Tks,
Jim
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