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  #11  
Old 03-10-2009, 11:52 AM
jim jim is offline
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Here's a link to a "classic" autechre track, gantz_graf well known for this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyJfHU4GoOQ&fmt=22

Definitely not easy listening, but very interesting. I'll be coding most of the day, but will try to put together a stack tonight that uses some of what I hear in many autechre tracks : hard-attack, short sounds, manipulated sample sounds, arhythmic patterns, and lots of what in Numerology-land we call gate divide....

Cheers,
Jim
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:34 PM
pete.m pete.m is offline
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Cool...can't wait to see your take on it

I was working on something last night inspired by Vletrmx, just washes of sound mostly, no beats.

Thanks!

-pete-
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  #13  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:39 PM
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jue jue is offline
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Hello,

what about this, listen

best
jue
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File Type: mp3 Analystica 001 exerpt.mp3 (931.9 KB, 47 views)
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  #14  
Old 03-10-2009, 02:53 PM
M.A.N.U. M.A.N.U. is offline
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Quote:
what about this, listen
It's like my last track : one climax, random but not evolutive. I like a lot !

But I think other people (those which listen to our music) needs to evolutive tracks and the music I enjoy (raw ! I can listen to a simple random beat from mine a load of hours) isn't always the music they enjoy. (Sorry again about my poor english).

About Autechre... The thing about them... They use everything. Logic, Digital Performer, Max/MSP, they have at least six computers (PC, mac), a few bended-or-not rythm machines... Here is an old gear-listing (2003) from a russian website.

Quote:
"Autechre Gear List

Если вы хотите знать, какое оборудование использует Autechre, вот списки 2003 и 1998 годов...

Gear List 2003 годавзят из журнала Future Music). Интервью из этого номера можно прочитать здесь. часть1, часть2, часть3

Один человек сделал линки на каждый из приборов, которые идут ниже. Таким образом можно подробно узнать о каждом из них: Mike Baas WebLink.

Akai Z8 sampler & ADAT card
AKG C1000 mic
Alesis QuadraVerb GT effects
Alesis Monitor 1 speakers
Alesis MMT8 sequencer (x2)
Analogue Systems RS8500 modular synth with various modules
Apple 7200 PowerPC
Apple 9650 PowerPC
Apple Airport LAN card (x2)
Apple G4 dual 800 computer
Apple G4 450 computer
Apple G4 500 Powerbook (x2)
Apple G4 800 Powerbook
Apple Powerbook 1400c computer with Newertech G3/PB 1400 upgrade card
Atari 1040STE computer
Behringer Autocom
Behringer Composer Pro
Behringer Ultrafex 2
Behringer Ultrapatch (x4)
Boss RDD-10 effects unit
Boss RSD-10 effects unit (x2)
Calabash gourd rattle
Casio FZ-1 sampler
Casio RZ-1 drum machine
Casio PT-7 workstation
Casio SK-1 sampler (x2)
Casio SK-5 sampler
Clavia Nord Lead rack synth
Clavia Nord Modular synth with eight-voice card (x2)
dbx DDP processor
Digidesign 882 I/O interface
Digidesign Disk I/O PCI
Digidesign DSP Farm PCI
DOD phaser pedal
Dynaudio BM 15a speakers
Dynaudio M1 speakers
Emagic AMT8 MIDI interface
E-mu Esynth Ultra sampler
Ensoniq ASR 10R Sampler (x2)
Ensoniq DP2 effects unit
Ensoniq EPS16+ sampler
Griffin iMate adaptor
Grundig tape recorder
HHB CDR850+ CD recorder
IBM 4.5Gb SCSI drives (x2)
IBM ThinkPad computer
Iomega Zip-100 drive (x2)
Iomega Zip-250 drive
Kenton Pro 4 CV/MIDI interface
Korg Prophecy synth
Korg MS10 synth
Kurzweil K2500R synth
LA Audio 4x4 compressor
Lexicon MPX1 effects unit
Mackie 24:8 mixer with meter bridge
Mackie CR1604 VLZ mixer
Mbira with resonator
Micropolis AVLT 2Gb SCSI drive
MidiLink midi interface
Midiman Fastlane USB MIDI interface
Miny portable tape recorder
MotU Micro Express MIDI interface
MotU MIDI Express XT/USB interface
Nintendo Gameboy
Oberheim DMX drum machine
Opcode Studio 3 MIDI interface
Panasonic SV3800 DAT recorder
Peavey PC 1600X controller
Philip Rees S5 MIDI switcher
Philips oscilloscope
Phonic MRT60 mixer
PSE stereo spring reverb
PT3 PCI interface
Realistic induction mic
Reyong
RME Hammerfal
RME Hammerfall ADI8 Pro audio interface
RME Hammerfall Digiface digital interface
Roland CR-8000 drum machine
Roland Juno 106 synth
Roland SH-2 synth
Roland MC-202 synth
Roland CR-78 drum machine
Roland PMA-5 sequencer
Roland TR-606 drum machine
Roland R-8 drum machine
Seagate Barracuda 4Gb SCSI drives (x3)
Seagate Barracuda 9Gb SCSI drive
Seck 18:8:2 mixer
Simmons SDE drum expander
Simmons SPM MIDI mixer
Sony CRX 1600L CDRW
Sony lapel mic
Sony MDSJE 520 MiniDisc recorder
Sony MP5 effects unit
Sony TDC7 DAT recorder
Sony TDC690 DAT recorder
Symbolic Sound Capybara320
Tascam 244 four-track recorder
Tascam DA20 MkII DAT recorder
Tascam DAP1 DAT recorder
Tascam M2600 mixer
TC phaser pedal
Wacom A5 & A6 tablets
Yamaha 4260TX CDRW
Yamaha CBXD5 interfaces (x2)
Yamaha CX5 computer (x2)
Yamaha DX100 synths (x2)
Yamaha FS 1R synth
Yamaha KXW321 tape deck
Yamaha NS 10M speakers
Yamaha QY20 sequencer/synth
Yamaha RY30 drum machine
Yamaha SU10 sample

А это тоже самое, но отсортированное мной по категориям:

Digital FX
Alesis QuadraVerb GT effects
Boss RDD-10 effects unit
Boss RSD-10 effects unit (x2)
dbx DDP processor
Ensoniq DP2 effects unit
Lexicon MPX1 effects unit
Sony MP5 effects unit

Analog FX
Behringer Autocom
Behringer Composer Pro
Behringer Ultrafex 2
DOD phaser pedal
LA Audio 4x4 compressor
PSE stereo spring reverb
TC phaser pedal


Computers
Apple 7200 PowerPC
Apple 9650 PowerPC
Apple Airport LAN card (x2)
Apple G4 dual 800 computer
Apple G4 450 computer
Apple G4 500 Powerbook (x2)
Apple G4 800 Powerbook
Apple Powerbook 1400c computer with Newertech G3/PB 1400 upgrade card
Atari 1040STE computer
IBM ThinkPad computer
Yamaha CX5 computer (x2)

Analog Modular Synth
Analogue Systems RS8500 modular synth with various modules

Synth
Casio PT-7 workstation
Clavia Nord Lead rack synth
Clavia Nord Modular synth with eight-voice card (x2)
Korg Prophecy synth
Korg MS10 synth
Roland Juno 106 synth
Roland SH-2 synth
Roland MC-202 synth
Yamaha DX100 synths (x2)
Yamaha FS 1R synth

Samplers
Akai Z8 sampler & ADAT card
Casio FZ-1 sampler
Casio SK-1 sampler (x2)
Casio SK-5 sampler
E-mu Esynth Ultra sampler
Ensoniq ASR 10R Sampler (x2)
Ensoniq EPS16+ sampler
Kurzweil K2500R synth
Yamaha SU10 sampler

Drum Machines
Casio RZ-1 drum machine
Oberheim DMX drum machine
Roland CR-8000 drum machine
Roland CR-78 drum machine
Roland TR-606 drum machine
Roland R-8 drum machine
Simmons SDE drum expander
Yamaha RY30 drum machine


MIDI Interfaces
Emagic AMT8 MIDI interface
Kenton Pro 4 CV/MIDI interface
MidiLink midi interface
Midiman Fastlane USB MIDI interface
MotU Micro Express MIDI interface
MotU MIDI Express XT/USB interface
Opcode Studio 3 MIDI interface
Philip Rees S5 MIDI switcher

Audio Interfaces
Digidesign 882 I/O interface
Digidesign Disk I/O PCI
Digidesign DSP Farm PCI
RME Hammerfal
RME Hammerfall ADI8 Pro audio interface
RME Hammerfall Digiface digital interface
Yamaha CBXD5 interfaces (x2)

HDDs and CDRWs
HHB CDR850+ CD recorder
IBM 4.5Gb SCSI drives (x2)
Iomega Zip-100 drive (x2)
Iomega Zip-250 drive
Micropolis AVLT 2Gb SCSI drive
Seagate Barracuda 4Gb SCSI drives (x3)
Seagate Barracuda 9Gb SCSI drive
Sony CRX 1600L CDRW
Yamaha 4260TX CDRW

DATs
Panasonic SV3800 DAT recorder
Sony TDC7 DAT recorder
Sony TDC690 DAT recorder
Tascam DA20 MkII DAT recorder
Tascam DAP1 DAT recorder

MiniDisk
Sony MDSJE 520 MiniDisc recorder

Tape Recorders
Grundig tape recorder
Miny portable tape recorder
Tascam 244 four-track recorder
Yamaha KXW321 tape deck

Control Monitors
Alesis Monitor 1 speakers
Dynaudio BM 15a speakers
Dynaudio M1 speakers
Yamaha NS 10M speakers

Mixers
Mackie 24:8 mixer with meter bridge
Mackie CR1604 VLZ mixer
Phonic MRT60 mixer
Seck 18:8:2 mixer
Simmons SPM MIDI mixer
Tascam M2600 mixer 24

Mics
AKG C1000 mic
Realistic induction mic
Sony lapel mic

Sequencers
Alesis MMT8 sequencer (x2)
Roland PMA-5 sequencer
Yamaha QY20 sequencer/synth

MIDI Controller:
Peavey PC 1600X controller

DSP Farm:
Symbolic Sound Capybara 320

Rest
Behringer Ultrapatch (x4)
Calabash gourd rattle
Griffin iMate adaptor
Mbira with resonator
Nintendo Gameboy
Philips oscilloscope
PT3 PCI interface
Reyong
Wacom A5 & A6 tablets

Gear List 1998 годавзят из журнала Sound on Sound). Интервью из этого номера можно прочитать здесь.

Roland Juno 106
Roland MC202
Roland TR606
Roland R8
Ensoniq ASR-10
Ensoniq EPS
Ensoniq DP2
Alesis Quadraverb
Kenton Pro4
Clavia Nord Lead
Korg Prophecy
Casio SK1
Casio SK5
Casio RZ1 sampling drum machine "That's really old school. The sampling quality is crap but it sounds awesome."
Philips Oscilloscope "We have a lot of problems with high frequencies, so we try and keep an eye on it. We also occasionally write tracks that look good on the oscilloscope. Unfortunately it tends to be really basic rave stuff."
Yamaha DX11
Tascam 24 channel mixer "Fat as f**k. We like the range and flexibility of the EQ a lot."
Korg MS20
Alesis Point 1 nearfield monitors "We replaced our NS10s with these because we thought our music was suffering.""
... Impressive. I've seen a good thread from IDMforums.com (Great forum about electronic musics) :

Autechre Max/Msp & Reaktor patches

(I'm not an Autechre's geek)

So, I think their music isn't random : their mind is.

Ok, seriously.

I'm more interested by the evolution of their tracks than the sounds. I've my owns. So, I return at home on tuesday (with new gear ! Akai S3000XL. I can't wait.), I'll listen to Autechre in "active" mode and really try to break the myth

Quote:
Definitely not easy listening, but very interesting. I'll be coding most of the day, but will try to put together a stack tonight that uses some of what I hear in many autechre tracks : hard-attack, short sounds, manipulated sample sounds, arhythmic patterns, and lots of what in Numerology-land we call gate divide....
Thanks !

Quote:
For the userbar into my signature: User CP --> Edit Signature --> upload picture....
It seems I can't make this. I'll try again. Thanks for jumping in the boat.

Quote:
im also into autechre and have seen them a few times playing live. but i can tell you upfront that its pretty complicated to achieve such complex soundscapes.
If I want to... I'm able to make it. And it works !
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  #15  
Old 03-10-2009, 04:31 PM
twoandtwo twoandtwo is offline
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hey jue,
definitely a good approach! maybe you can tell us how you managed to program this.

M.A.N.U., right! a track, as random as it is, should evolve. there should be a dramaturgy thats changing the tention of the track. i think thats applicable to any kind of music.
i read an interesting article on arranging tracks in more interesting ways, so a good loop doesnt stay static. here it is:

http://tarekith.com/assets/arranging.html

if you ask me, arranging is one of the hardest things of all. its all about variation, breaks and details that keep it interesting.
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  #16  
Old 03-10-2009, 06:27 PM
pete.m pete.m is offline
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Good point about the need for evolution. I once had a guitar teacher that stressed the importance of never playing a part the same way twice (in solo fingerstyle stuff at least)

Thanks for the link too!

-pete-
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  #17  
Old 03-10-2009, 11:56 PM
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jue jue is offline
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Hello,

sorry, but as I told you I am new to this kind of music.
I just wandet to check wether I am in the right direction for sound and beats.
Arrangement is the next steps for me in a work.
The other thing I see is that I do not understand right what people mean with their words.
For me generative is some kind of randomness, but for others it seems that this means making a whole arrangement in one stack.
And that coul be difficult at least with only one stack.
For me most of the time there are two to four stacks only for arranging the other stacks in the project.
A normal Project could look like this:
Stack 1 - 2 : Controlls for live corrections ( FaderBoxes and ParamMods )
Stack 3 - 7 : Controls for project arrangement ( ModulationSeqs und ParamMods )
Stack 8 - .... : Stacks for the seqs and the instruments if they are hosted in Numerology, if not they are sending out MIDI.

The other thing what could be done after this recording is to work with some kind of master effects including cutting and pasting some audioparts or use some plugins shreddering the audio.
When hearing the graf title I could hear a lot of effects of the reaktor user library used to mangle the whole track.

What I wanted to say that we need to go thru several stages to reach a complex result like this. It could be possible to do this in one go within Numerology but it will be mutch more work than to go thru the differend stages of the production work.

best
jue
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2009, 03:49 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim View Post
.... I'll be coding most of the day, but will try to put together a stack tonight that uses some of what I hear in many autechre tracks : hard-attack, short sounds, manipulated sample sounds, arhythmic patterns, and lots of what in Numerology-land we call gate divide....
Ok, so make that "most of the week" and "put together a stack real-soon-now"... Anyway, I'm working on several ideas, and will post examples as soon as I get them organized. One of the ideas is based around some high-level controls over a SamplePlayer and its primary params (sample start, loop start, loop length, tuning...). Another trick I'm pursuing is a way to systematically modify a note pattern using shift, invert, skip steps, and "selective transposition". Stay tuned...

Jim
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  #19  
Old 03-22-2009, 11:06 AM
M.A.N.U. M.A.N.U. is offline
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Humm... Interesting !

I can't focus on N2 at the moment, I've a lot of works with my bands. I come back after april 3rd... It'll be nice
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  #20  
Old 03-24-2009, 04:16 AM
theau theau is offline
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Nice thread, I'm definitely curious of new ideas regarding stack organization. I also have nice circuit bent samples to share if needed.

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