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Old 02-14-2012, 02:48 PM
bagger288 bagger288 is offline
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Default "preset actions" module

I've been thinking lately about how to get some more evolving structures in Numerology. The stack preset playlists are brilliant, I don't know how I missed that! That is very handy.

I've been wanting to get out of more linear structures, like looping groups of patterns or repeating single patterns until I move to the next one.

An idea occurred to me--there could be a "preset actions" module that could be inserted into a stack, that would give more options about what to do at the end of a measure. Especially useful here would be the inclusion of probabilities. This would let the user basically set up markov chains to control the musical structure! If you could include the PREVIOUS pattern as a determinant for what the next pattern would be... wow, that would be cool...

It could include number of times to play a loop, or a random range of the number of loops. Also, I would LOVE the ability to randomly select a different pattern after the end of a pattern. Even cooler would be the ability to randomly select from a user set group of patterns, and also set a probability for this to happen.

This, used in conjunction with with the preset playlist, would let the user create some on-the fly large(r) scale structures. That is one thing that I feel numerology is a little weak in right now--it is fantastic for modular sequencing on the pattern level, but it is a little hard to get out of a linear loop without constantly switching patterns manually.

To put it in perspective, I just want to be able to make my patterns and musical structure evolve organically, in the same way numerology already lets me do the same thing with sounds and melodies and rhythms.

Thanks!!

Last edited by bagger288; 02-14-2012 at 03:44 PM. Reason: adding something
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:14 PM
TwoToneshuzz TwoToneshuzz is offline
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I had these same kind of thoughts in the first 3 or four months of using the program.

I basically found my own ways. Ways that got me my evolving structures. But instead of using several presets jumping from state to state, I made ways to take a constant now state and make it evolve.

I like some of the ideas you express. It seems like a building blocks method where you have a number of states that can easily ordered, as you explained.


Like a 16 by 16 matrix with launch buttons which could be moved around so it followed a pre made plan..

Lots to think about here. I'm pretty good with what I've got running for my own usage to reach evolving structures.. But I would love to follow and learn what fresh eyes can find of new ways to the solution.

I'm after having a group of twelve sequencers that don't switch presets states. But which are controlled by the Time stack, the Harmony stack, gate trigger stack and the individual per sequence mute stack, and the global mute stack..Global Velocity stack.

There's also modulating the start or end steps of sequences to pick out cells within a phrase. Also shifting various parameters within a sequencer was one thing I was exploring alot. I also find using arps in my synths combined with Numerologies sequencers played in greater than whole values notes playing the arps.

Another angle is just get in there are through things up fast create a pastich, let work get it happening and just let it be. Stravinsky had a very sectional way of working in some of his works. Where his soundscape would run its' course and then abruptly cut to a whole other texture..

Good luck on getting your dream setup to work!

Regards

Wade

Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 02-14-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:30 PM
bagger288 bagger288 is offline
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thanks... That's some stuff I haven't thought of doing, like moving around the start and end points in a sequence. Cool ideas.

Honestly it kind of makes my head hurt to make reallly complicated stacks, I prefer to make just a couple simple, clean connections and switch presets. But all approaches are good and valid
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:33 AM
TwoToneshuzz TwoToneshuzz is offline
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Ja head hurt. That's a good sign mostly. Sometimes when everything just seems too hard take a break or do something easy, sleep on it and the solution that was probably staring you in the face all along just pops up.

I think the problem with big stacks is mostly that it seems hard to navigate around.

I am getting into collapsing and and expanding the stack alot to get to the modules I need to work with. also moving modules around for making connections and moving them around to get them into play modus or overview modus. Tip for moving modules around collapse and go on the modules page. This way you avoid this double drag thing that happens in the routing page.

For adding lots of modules I think it's fastest to do in the routing view, and often you need to be on the routing page to make connections.

Another tip is to name the modules with something that makes sense for what they do. And keep the numbering logical so it's easy to find things if you use a lot of the same type in a stack.

About that 16 x!6 matrix it could be sizable up to 16x16. I was mentioning as a preset manager type thing. But not withing one stack it would be a global preset manager.

Each slot would be a representation, an alias of a device or setup across from any stack across the whole project. Each slot in the matrix could have a time parameter and an envelope fade in fade out parameter and a volume parameter. A Device would include the sequencers, modulators, effects, synths and output assignments and their settings, so one device could occupy several slots depending upon how many different presets or states that it uses. Double clicking on a slot brings up the preset,stack. cmd clicking brings up the active synths, alt clicking the output assignments, and so on.

The playlist could be then time stamped using adresses of some sort so that you would have to worry about where in the matrix a particular device was sitting, the lowest right most slot could contain the intro for example. Then when you play the project the active slots would show the number in their front pane of the global sequence "now" playing.

Like a playlist that contains all elements used in a sound output at the master buss.

Regards

Wade

Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 02-15-2012 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:53 PM
bagger288 bagger288 is offline
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thanks wade. Really sounds like you know this program inside and out. I guess with modular systems, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Asking for certain features a lot of the time is just like asking for Jim to "make it easier" for us, because there are so many things that can be done with some creative patching like you describe here.

thanks again,
John
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:06 AM
TwoToneshuzz TwoToneshuzz is offline
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Hi John!

Ja I'm a person that like to speculate. To dream up, experiment perhaps this is what fascinates me with Audio , music systems, compositions. I set things up and listen way more than I spent tweaking once itĘ's all set up. Then there is a phase were things reach a critical mass, and I have to get in the drivers seat and bring on a change.

I think breaking the endless repetitivness of loops, and sequences is my main driving force in setting up the big systems. Once set up I can let the individual sequences run away again. I got into making systems that get controlled by a few main sequencers, Harmony, Triggering Play/stop stacks, Speed stacks, volume stacks. I see it as a relaxing side element of the process of working with Numerology, sort of like techy knitting.

I create an enviroment of elements that I control lightly and from a distance, instead of having focus right down into every detail. The idea planning things out so well, that you get lucky more often than not. This luck momentem at some point overpowers the mundane boring and misplaced elements.

Regards

Wade

Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 02-16-2012 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 03:42 PM
jonahs jonahs is offline
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I guess it would be similar to the evolve function that works every x bars or beats?

Have you checked out the generative stacks in the library?

Here's a brief overview of what I do sometimes: New stack, setup a modulation sequencer, set it to target the stack output of the stack I want to switch presets in, select next preset number, turn on quantization and step mode. Then move the start and end points so it's one one step in length and modulate the step value itself with a S+H LFO.

To expand it you could setup a control to move the start and end points one step forward and modulate each step with a different S+H LFO with different ranges. You can also modulate the shift left and right buttons on the modulation sequencer.

If you then also randomly modulate the end point of your note sequencer and other parameters within it you can have a vast amount of variety with just a few presets.

Then of course you could throw another modulation sequencer down to modulate the playback controls, rate or what have you on the preset switching modulation sequencer.

What might be cool is expanding on the generative stacks with ternary conditionals that trigger modulation sequencers based on things like note velocity, pitch etc. So you could just drop these in when you want them.

And the ternary conditionals could be used for some wacky generative stuff too.....
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:03 PM
bagger288 bagger288 is offline
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also super useful thanks! I'm going to give that a shot as well. So much stuff hidden in there. It's kind of funny, I haven't gotten that deep into the modular patching in numerology. I do a TON in reaktor and my g2, but up until recently i've mostly used numerology as just a fast, good workflow for more straightforward sequencing. time to jump in a little deeper!
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:41 AM
slightlydrybeans slightlydrybeans is offline
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I've also recently been using a button box as a preset trigger. If you use a mod sequencer to modulate the index you can sequence the button presses and send out prog change messages to one or many stacks. I've been using it like the "scenes" deal in Live that will trigger a whole row of cells. You could break up a song into sections that you could trigger this way, sequencing the whole thing from a mod sequencer, or even live from a controller mapped to the button box.
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