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  #1  
Old 04-26-2010, 01:51 AM
aze aze is offline
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Default Expert Sleepers Silent Way

Hello Forum,

this is my first post and I hope I am addressing the right people and I am in the right category... let's see.

My question is regarding Numerology using the silent way plugin from expert sleepers.

I am trying to follow exactly the video posted on this (excellent) homepage how to set up the modular with numerology. However, I cannot get it to work.

I have two issues:
- In the pure analog setup when I try to calibrate the plugin, I only get a series of clicks or high pitch sounds and the graph shows several spikes after calibration. Obviously I cannot play the correct notes after this calibration.
- My second question is regarding pitch. This does not work when I use numerology and a MIDI to CV interface and I expect it to maybe be part of the whole problem. When I play a sequence and close the pitch gates the modular will continue to play the last note it received with an open pitch gate. I am not getting a "Note off" kind of response from my setup. In the video of the silent way plugin it is clearly shown that the sound is actually off when the pitch gates are closed. How is that done? Through MIDI to CV or Silent way to CV.

Just to make things easier to narrow down:
- yes, I did read the manual
- yes, I built the cables according to the instructions (TRS -> TS)
- I am using a MOTU FW 828 MKII as my soundcard (MIDI and analog out/in)
- I am using both a Doepfer MCV24 as well as the A-190 as MIDI to CV modules
- I have only Doepfer modules as VCO's (the A-110 and the A-111)

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks for this excellent product (which I activated yesterday after some days on the Demo version).

Regards,
aze
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2010, 04:01 AM
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amsonx amsonx is offline
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Have you seen the video About numerology and SW ?
i've the same VCO (A-110) and i was able to calibrate this .
As audio card i use a Tascam us-1641 with the AC/DC converter
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2010, 04:23 AM
aze aze is offline
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Default Video

Thanks for your suggestion. Yes, as my original post says I did look at the video (maybe 2 dozen times) but still cannot get it to work as in the video.

Apart from some pops and crackles no sound with the DC coupled interface at all. Through MIDI it works, although the pitch problem (as explained in my first post) persists.

Any other suggestions?
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:28 AM
expertsleepers expertsleepers is offline
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I wonder if you might be routing the CV outputs incorrectly, possibly to your main outs.

What MOTU calls "out 1/2" are often seen by the software as "out 3/4" because the "main outs" are actually out 1/2.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:54 AM
aze aze is offline
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Yes, this is what I have been suspecting but have not tried it out.

It would mean that routing CV Outs to Out3/4 in Numerology (with the SW plugin) means sending CV's to the OUT 1/2 on the MOTU 828.

Although I have my modular audio out connected to IN 2 and can hear the sound through my main Outs I fail to see the Input in the Numerology Mixer. The meter bars on that input also stay at roughly 10% with very little movement. Does that mean IN 1/2 in Numerology is possibly also not what it actually is on the MOTU?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Aze
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2010, 07:01 AM
expertsleepers expertsleepers is offline
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In 1/2 are almost certainly the same in MOTU and Numerology. If you can't get audio in to Numerology, completely ignoring Silent Way for the moment, then that's going to be a problem.

Jim might have to help you there, though.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
jim jim is offline
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You definitely need to use input and output channels in Numerology that are 2 higher than what are on the interface, as outs 1&2 are the 'main outs', and the first set of individual outs, which are labeled Out 1,2 on the interface come up in Numerology as Out 3,4.

I have both the A-110 and A-111 and can calibrate them w/o issue. Whenever I have a problem with this setup, it is almost always the cables,
either a problem with the cables themselves, or an incorrect connection. Here is a list of things you can do to help narrow down the problem, be sure to resolve any issues with each step before moving forward.

- First, get a cheap volt meter and test your cables for any shorts or missed connections. I just had a cable that I soldered a few weeks ago go bad, so it is always a good idea to double check your cables when anything goes wrong.

- Next unplug pretty much everything on the modular except one cable: One from the sine output of the A-111 to individual input 5 on the MOTU. In order to make these instructions as clear as possible, I will specific I/O and module names. Do not plug any signals from the MOTU to the modular yet, just that one output cable from the oscillator to the MOTU.

- Check the settings on the A-111. The Range should be 0, the Tune knob should be pretty much in the middle.

- In Numerology, verify you have the same MOTU set as the audio interface, then make a new stack, set the input of the stack to be input 7 on the MOTU --- that will correspond to the physical individual input #5. On the routing page for the stack, make a connection from the audio input of the stack to the audio output of the stack. You should then hear the sine tone through your monitors. The frequency of the sine should be within an octave of Middle C. This establishes that you have the correct signal from the modular to Numerology. Make sure the output level from the A-111 is not too 'hot' (i.e. clipping) -- if necessary, route the output of the oscillator through a mixer or VCA module to bring the level down.

- Now connect a cable from individual output #5 of the MOTU to the "CV1" input on the A-111. As soon as you plug it in, the pitch should drop to pretty much nothing (if I remember correctly.). Now add the Silent Way Voice Controller to the stack, and set it's inputs to Inputs 7-8 of the MOTU, and its outputs also to 7,8. Bring up the UI and hit the Calibrate button. It will take a few seconds before you can hear it start to sweep through the pitch range.

- If calibration seems to work, then add a MonoNote to the stack, make sure that its MIDI out is routed to MIDI in on SW VC, program in a few different pitches and gates and start the transport. Since there is no gate signal yet, you'll just hear the pitch change, but that verifies that you're all calibrated.

- Last step, route a cable from output #6 on the MOTU to the input of your Envelope Generator module, connect that to a VCA, route the audio through it, etc.

If you get stuck on any of these steps, stop and double-check everything. Among the silly problems I've encountered other than bad cables are incomplete connections to the MOTU, plugging into the inputs instead of the outputs, etc. You might even check the MOTU Cuemix console to make sure there isn't something odd going on there. If you verify all that and you're still stuck, let me know what step you got to, and what the results are, and I can suggest a few more things to check.

Cheers,
Jim
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2010, 12:57 AM
aze aze is offline
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Default Success

Jim,

thanks for the excessive and really great explanations.

It all narrowed down to the fact that 1/2 is 3/4. Everything else I had already double and triple checked (cables, cables, cables...... and of course unplugged anything not connected with this task).

As soon as I had figured that out (and it really is not that obvious) everything else worked exactly as shown in the Video. FANTASTIC!

Regarding cables I have read several times that on the output side shorting T and R could lead to problems. Currently I only have 2 cables TRS -> TS and one more is shorting T and R on the output side. I am using this one for the ADSR and it seems to work. I will get myself the correct cable (or build one respectively), but how big is the danger of "destroying" something on the MOTU?

Also, using a standard Insert cable, what would be the exact use of the other TRS -> RS side (using the TRS -> TS side for the VCO CV input)?

Thanks again for the good explanations, I recommend to put them somewhere into the manual or post them sticky.

Regards, Aze
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2010, 03:41 PM
baltimoroder baltimoroder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aze View Post
how big is the danger of "destroying" something on the MOTU?
I'm not sure how "big" of a problem it is shorting ring to sleeve... Some people do it and don't seem to have issues. Others caution. Official MOTU recommendation is to build/buy the right cables.

Best description I've found of why not to do it is here:
"To understand the restriction on TS->TS cables, you need to understand that (Silent Way) is using a computer audio interface for a purpose it really wasn't designed to serve. Until someone comes out with a nice DC coupled interface (hint, hint boutique manufacturers), we have to work with the interfaces that happen to pass DC. These interfaces are designed to have balanced outputs that drive a differential signal down two wires. For millivolt audio signals, differential signals are a big win that keep noise down. For driving DC, it isn't such a good thing. So, the interface is driving voltage down two wires, that come out as a tip and sleeve on the jack. If the ring is connected to the ground as it would be with TS->TS cables, the interface is driving current from the sleeve to the ground, effectively shorting the output. Audio interfaces are pretty tough and can be used for audio signals on TS cables so it isn't going to break it right away but there is some concern that over time, the extra current driven to the ground could cause harm to the hardware."
Quote:
Originally Posted by aze View Post
Also, using a standard Insert cable, what would be the exact use of the other TRS -> RS side (using the TRS -> TS side for the VCO CV input)?
No "exact" use... but inverted signals are a lotta fun.
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